Another Pen for Western Culture

Thursday, January 26, 2006

Why Democracy?--Question 2 from Bob A., age 18

Bob A., previously introduced as "Johnny Public," poses the following multi-farious question. Please help me assemble some sort of answer. (Rome wasn't built in a day, and an Amish barn-raising takes the whole town, and I can't reassemble the cathedral that is Western Civilization alone.) I've edited this a little, but left it mostly hairy and complex. In response to my asking what could be better than democracy, Bob writes:

There is monarchy, which history has shown is far less cruel than democracy. prior to world war one, no states were democratic, with a few exceptions such as athens, the roman republic, the u. s., and the french republics. after that, most states have been democratic, and there has been a tremendus increase in taxation, inflation, (real) interest rates, legistlation, ideological war and genocide, and immorality. democracy has been the fountain head of every form of socialism, notably that of nazi germany and soviet russia, not to mention the roman empire. the democratic revolution of france was also particularly brutal. this is consistent with the theory of government.

kings have a perpetual monopoly on the ability to plunder and loot their realm, and can pass that along to their children, so they have an incentive to preserve the value of their rule and not engage in reckless behavior such as excessive taxation and war. democratic rulers have exactly the opposite incentive. in order to be relected, politicians must engage in redistributing wealth, ideological war, useless legislation, and whatever else the voters want (or that they can dupe them into thinking they want). in other words, the incentive of politicians is to loot the country as quickly as possible, because what they don't loot now, they won't be able to in the future. the other alternative, which i think best, is anarchy (that is, the lack of a state). this in various degrees has worked in ancient america, ancient iceland, and modern somalia. the most notable example is ancient ireland.

in theory, though, the state is simply unnecessary, because it provides no service which couldn't be provided more efficiently by the free market. it is a law of economics that monopolies are never more efficient than competing companies. utilitarian arguments are morally flawed if they violate natural principles of justice.

13 Comments:

  • It's too late to try to type up any answers, but I'd like to shape the discussion a bit. It seems you are using the term "democracy" very loosely. That's not inappropriate, but worth noting. U.S. government is a completely different animal from Nazi Germany, Soviet Russia, or those states engaged in genocide and ideological wars. I would personally never use the term 'democracy' to describe any of those places. Of course, THEY would. But if the people do not have a meaningful voice, it's hardly a democracy in my book.

    In addition, the philosophical roots of socialism and democracy are different. Given your later comments about the state and anarchy, I think when you say 'democracy' you may intend a broad sort of term that would include any large bereaucratic institution. That is, as used here, you seem to include all rulers but primitive tribes or formal monarchies under the blanket term "democracy." If I am wrong, let me know. But how you define terms is critical (as you pointed out to me a few weeks ago).

    Briefly I would add that most of the evils of the 20th century were not the result of any sort of representative government. And the fault for such evils lies not at the feet of democracy but at the feet of 19th-century materialism and several powerful philosophies that sprung up from the view that man is his own end, that there is no god, never was, and all morality, virtue, and ethics are nothing more than sociological constructs. Once men began accepting that, then wholesale slaughter became equally acceptable.

    Kings, by the way, have often been phenominally cruel and capricious. If their evil never rose to modern proportions, it was due not to the lack of democracy, but to the lack of an efficient infrastructure created by the robust economy and free markets you spoke of. And while they may have preserved things nicely for their kith and kin (the ones they did not slaughter anyway), they often stripped the life from peasants the way strip mining ruins the land.

    Anarchy is no solution either and never existed, as I define it. Ireland and all other places without strong central governments have always had strong local leaders, chieftans and tribalism of all sorts, and all the killing and pillaging that goes along with it. By "anarchy" you seem to mean no strong central government. That is certainly possible. But there will always be rulers and there will always be struggles for power and innocent people caught in the middle.

    Ancient America, as you called it--a term that sounds downright idyllic--was not some a land of holy and noble savages. Haven't you read your Book of Mormon? (Kidding....) Anyway, you might call it anarchy. But I just call it lots of hungry, half-dressed people fighting over wives and whiskey. Not to be rude to the Injuns. But it's not as if there were not plenty of potential Pol Pots and Hitlers among them. (And Mother Theresas and Ghandis, too, sure.) What they lacked was not democracy but highways, bomb factories, and millions of expendable lives.

    Don't think the Indians didn't kill and exploit those they could. And as for taxes, every chief--from the Commander-in-Chief to Indian Chiefs, to Irish Chieftans insists on his tribute. If you don't pay, he'll get his pound of flesh.

    Into this savage world we have been flung. At least a representative democracy gives us some voice in the amount of taxes we pay and the way they are spent.

    That said, I agree--the American State is an overgrown sow, a ridiculous, bloated bereaucracy, grown fat and lazy and largely--but not wholly--unaccountable to voters. Sure, there are problems of all sorts. But you do have a voice and you really can make a difference.

    By Blogger S., at 11:50 PM, January 26, 2006  

  • I like those comments, Cliff. Particularly this:

    "In this instance, an organization that has a monopoly on personal protection and law enforcement is better because it is in a position to treat everyone the same. A system under a constitution is even better because it gives the monopoly organization a framework to operate in and rules it must abide by."

    I picture it this way: on a fundamental, grass-roots level, you have families: God's original and most significant institution. Families provide justice, protection, and provision to their members. But eventually, they come together to form clans and do the same things on a larger scale. Under various threats (because threats are constant in this world) clans soon ally themselves into larger tribes. But when numbers increase, managing the delivery of justice, protection, and provision becomes complex and members have to organize to promote a bit of efficiency. For example, after leaving Egypt, Moses initially was the sole administrator. Soon he realized he had to appoint a series of lower judges to screen the cases and administer justice in all but the most difficult cases--which then came to him.

    And this is true of any people group that is blessed with a thriving population. They have to address themselves to tasks of justice, protection from outsiders, and provisions for the members. So they organize. Families form clans, clans form tribes, tribes form nations, and nations choose kings--or in later years, any of several competing beuracracies.

    That said, big nations (and they're all big now) will always have a STATE of some sort. I think that's a given, whether we like it or not. The question becomes what kind of state do you want? A truly representative democracy insures various rights for the people, and even more remarkable--is built on the radical notion that all men are equal. This notion is also false, by the way, but is a falsehood that we insist the State believe--even if science, education, demographics, and common sense tell us that some people are more-good, some are more-bad, some make a contribution, others only take, some are evil monsters, while others sacrifice all for great and noble causes.

    Nevertheless, in the eyes of the State, the U.S. democracy insists we are all equal. We stand in the voting booth, the public school, or the witness chair on equal footing.

    Many other states follow the idea that people are not equal and the good of the almighty State is all that matters. (See Dr. Zhivago, for ex.) I like our model better.

    By Blogger S., at 9:22 AM, January 27, 2006  

  • by democracy, i mean a state where there is open entry into the office of ruler, by some sort of election. the dictatorships of 20th century europe were not (dynastical) monarchies because their leaders were still democratically elected and their rule could not be inherited. hitler was elected by popular vote, and the 1936 soviet constitution allowed universal suffrage. even if you don't consider these democracies, they were still the result of democracies. also, the u. s. has engaged in much ideological war. lincoln's war against the confederacy, the u. s. entry into the world wars, and most other u. s. wars were ideologically motivated, and have resulted in much murder and destruction. the current wars in the middle east are being waged primarily in the name of spreading democracy and "freedom".

    it's unlikely that monarchies' rule was limited by technology. compare the rule of the czars and communist dictators, and you will find a marked difference.

    ireland actually was a complete anarchy. it had tuatha, which people could join for legal protection. no tuath had a monopoly either by geography or race; people chose whichever suited them best. tuatha could be bought and sold, merged and disbanded like any other company. (there were no chieftans who insisted on "tribute".) there were wars, but they were very small by european standards.

    cliff: if there is a dispute between two people, they would go to a private arbiter. it would be destructive, and very bad for business, for two protection agencies to go to war with each other. private arbiters are disinterested third parties trained in law whom disputants pay to decide their case and agree to whose ruling beforehand, and who live by their reputation for wisdom and nonbias. this would be far better than the current system, where people are forced to go to a certain protection agency, and a certain judge, and there is no way to effectively take care of corrupt police and judges.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 10:21 AM, January 27, 2006  

  • And arbitration is not ideal either. Most would-be plaintiffs in our legal system who end up in arbitration are there because they signed some 5-page form that included an arbitration clause. Few patients read such boilerplate before agreeing to surgery, for example. Then when something goes wrong they face an arbitration panel. Who sits on such a panel? Three doctors. You might argue that's necessary for a medical malpractice dispute--but it does little--I mean nothing--to guarantee a patient's rights. Should a patient be lucky enough to get an unbiased panel, his case may get a fair hearing. But there is hardly any pretense of a built-in check on a potentially-biased panel. And the decision cannot be appealed.

    Sometimes ideal-sounding theories turn up empty when you can't pay the bills or put food on the table because an unappealable injustice has left you disabled.

    By Blogger S., at 11:28 AM, January 27, 2006  

  • By the way, would you argue that the U.S. was wrong to fight in WWII? Would not more lives have been lost by our staying out?

    Several of us had a lengthy discussion on just this point recently. See: http://oneunknownman.blogspot.com/2006/01/bumper-sticker-brilliance.html

    (But unless you put your comments here, I will lose track.)

    By Blogger S., at 11:35 AM, January 27, 2006  

  • having a libertarian society would not require everyone to agree to live by natural law, only most people, and i think that's reasonable, since most people today aren't criminals.

    if two people in conflict already have business with eachother, such as a landlord and resident, it would probably be specified in their contract beforehand exactly how to settle disputes. most disputes are between people who honestly believe they are in the right and want to settle it without violence; for those criminals who blatantly commit some crime, such as murder or arson, or who blatantly brake a contract, the plantif would simply try them in court, and if they could prove that the person commited the crime, they could proceed to compel them to pay reparation. if the defendant doesn't care to show up, that's not a problem. so what if you couldn't afford an arbiter, or professional protection? this is analogous to the case that you can't afford food, or electricity: you simply don't have it unless someone decides to give it to you. a lot of the theory of arbitration is explained briefly in this article, if you don't mind reading it.

    as for the u.s. entering world war two, it's not wrong in theory to go out and kill a bunch of murders, but that's not all that happened. firstly, because the military was a public affair, the funding for it came from taxation, and also the government used the war to implement certain "temporary" socialist measures which are still in place. secondly, the u.s. did not merely kill enemy soldiers, it also killed many civilians, such as in the bombing of japan.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 1:11 PM, January 27, 2006  

  • I will read the article tonight, since I am at work where I am compelled to stop doing non-work tasks. But I would love to suggest a bit of reading you might consider, being the compulsive autodidact I know you must be.

    1) Lord of the Flies (I recommend the Norton Critical Edition with its many excellent essays on literary devices and symbolism, but also on the political messages of the book), and
    2) The Federalist Papers in a version edited by a supporter.

    I'm glad to see you flesh out your view a bit more for our benefit--I'm sure you knew it already. I support some libertarian ideas, but the main difference is our view of man. I don't trust people except in a society like ours where so many structures exist to discourage them from screwing me. (But if you knew me better, you'd know I'm very trusting, personally.) However, as a matter of public policy, I want to live in a system with armies, navies, air force, police, coast guard, ATF, and even those annoying screeners at the airports. And I want a highly developed system of civil litigation--in spite of the abuses.

    I'm with James Madison (I think it was) who said, "We have staked the future of this democracy on the ability of its people to govern themselves according to the Ten Commandments of God." In other words, as complex as our system is, if people abandon what natural law proves to be right and moral, the system will break down.

    I think in the system you propose that breakdown would simply come sooner.

    Thanks again for the great comments.

    By Blogger S., at 2:14 PM, January 27, 2006  

  • By the way, I got back on line to simply note that whatever may have once existed on the Emerald Isle, we're through the looking glass now. That is, you can't put the genie back in the bottle. You can't unscramble the egg. (I love cliches...) What I mean is, a large, bureaucratic state is here to stay--in every land. Regardless of their merits, all other options are simply not going to be accepted by the public, even if they should be.

    By Blogger S., at 2:25 PM, January 27, 2006  

  • Okay, Bob. Ah done perused them articles on the Austrian theory of economics.... I also took the 10-question quiz. I chose the Austrian answer about five times. The interesting thing is, this brings up another set of questions. It's important to control the direction of your own education so that you end up arriving at a place where you want to be. (Preferably the right place, the best place, the place with answers that are accurate.) I want you to know that even at 38 I am very conscious about this, regardless of a doctorate and 20+ years of serious scholarly reading at home--outside of any academic setting. I read many books, but some with a more skeptical eye than others.

    How do you evaluate a source/author? There are many factors, including prior books you may have read and recommendations from those you trust. But if I have neither of those to go on, I look to the author's worldview. If he and I do not agree on the origins of life, the role of man, his nature and the nature of his interactions with other men, the future of man and civilization, the problems of evil and suffering--what caused it and how and when will it be fixed--then I will be more skeptical in reading his work. The reason for the skepticism is that I know our differences will inevitably lead us to different results on many subjects that may at first glance seem unrelated to the issues I listed as elements of a worldview. Economics and politics are two such subjects. For example, if you were an athiest and I a theist, then our politics would differ in hundreds of little ways. And every difference may begin with the simple fact that I believe in an objective, non-relative basis for morality and you believe morality is the creation of men and societies, and naturally changes with the times. Most of the time, this disagreement will land you in a more liberal camp than I on dozens of issues. I think you get where I'm going with this....

    Anyway, as I presently know nothing about Austrian economics (except that the proponents appear strongly opposed to several economic principles with which I agree) I cannot really evaluate them at this time. Of course, you never asked me to, did you?

    I guess what I am saying is, I hope you will consider reading a good variety of sources before you make up your mind. I mentioned the Federalist Papers. On many other philosophical and political/social/cultural issues, I recommend C.S. Lewis and Francis Schaeffer. And the excellent book 'Total Truth,' by Nancy Pearcey. It's not that others are incorrect, necessarily, but I think it would be wise to give some of Christianity's strongest apologists and philosophers the benefit of the doubt.

    I will address private arbitration momentarily.

    By Blogger S., at 12:25 PM, January 28, 2006  

  • I had to reread the article; the 2:00 a.m. reading escaped me. Anyway, I cannot disagree with anything the writer says about private being better than public. During the debate over nationalized healthcare, I was a big fan of the tee-shirts comparing Hillary-Care to the U.S. Post Office. I also am in the middle of a novel-length writing project, much of which involves the virtue of "private everything." But I am just not so radical as to give up the compelling power of the State. I'm sure I do not disagree with the Mises-people on the corruption and abuses of our overgrown federal bureaucracy. It's a huge drain on us and a burden in many ways. I currently owe a tax debt that is killing me.... And the problems and abuses in our legal system are legion (more than legion). I have a whole other website dedicated to just that. But I just do not have enough faith in my fellow man to privatize everything, even the way we deal with the worst among us. I think the idea is unworkable because people are so prone to evil that they will find ways to cheat the system. But there's probably no reason to argue the points here. I just think the system they propose assumes too much good in one's fellow man.

    I know most people are not criminals. But if the existing structures were removed, they would surprise even themselves. Consider cheating. In public schools it's an epidemic. In colleges it's an epidemic. On the job (and on tax returns) it's epidemic. The same could be said of many other evils. And as powerful as the State is, it can't fix it. I cannot believe that private arrangements would work even as well as the State.

    By Blogger S., at 12:41 PM, January 28, 2006  

  • One more thought on privatization of even criminal law--what about societal norms we wish to enforce, such as making prostitution illegal, or abortion, whatever? Our present sytem is not perfect, but at least it's roughly majoritarian. Generally the majority can agree on rules for the whole. If it were left to the parties, what do you say when the defendant argues you have no standing? That is, you want to prevent a topless bar from moving into your town, but the owner says you are not a direct neighbor, so you therefore have no standing to file suit?

    I assume the writers have answers to all the usual objections--don't feel you need to repeat them here.

    By Blogger S., at 9:52 PM, January 28, 2006  

  • i find it odd that you trust people when given the power to crush all opposition, but not when put under the same rules as the rest of us.

    private things like dietary and sexual habits are generally the business of nobody not involved. if someone wanted to open a topless bar, that would be legal as long as they didn't kidnap anyone and force them to patronize. the most disapproving citizens could do is boycott, and of course street owners would have the right to enforce dress codes for people traveling their streets (local streets and neighborhoods would be more inclined to do this than highways). the right to provide prostitution, for example, does not imply a right to do so on others' property, since it's merely a subset of the right to self-ownership.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 11:00 PM, January 28, 2006  

  • That opening line is great writing, but not a fair restatement of my position.

    The reason I insist on a representative democracy, particularly this one, is that it does not give anyone the power to crush all opposition. I realize the State is a powerful force, but it is not a monolith. It's a massive place filled with thousands of different people, each with his own personal ambitions and competing drives and jealousies. In other words, efforts to crush all opposition fail here because of infighting and backstabbing if nothing else. More importantly, the whole engine was designed with internal checks and balances that are truly ingenious and have so far prevented any one aspect or department or branch of our State from gaining too much power and destroying the rest (although the Supreme Court is well on its way, thanks to a modern perversion of judicial review).

    You and I may find little common ground on some of these issues, but please take to heart my encouragement that you look to the Bible for answers on this. And not necessarily to MY reading of it, or anyone else's, but read it for yourself. It is still true that "The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom." I have relatives in Georgia who are yellow-dog Democrats. We went round and round a few years ago. Then we settled with a truce--the important thing is serving Christ. I vote for those whom I believe will promote laws that are the most consistent with the principles in the Bible--and I assume they do the same. I would vote for Jews (esp. Michael Horowitz) or anyone else that I could believe that about--because politics is not like choosing deacons or something. I don't require Christian statesmen. But I want the people in office to do things that support positions I agree with. As for prostitution and similar things, I am convinced--and there is a tremendous amount of support for the view--that people look to the law to learn morals (not all people, not me, for example, because the Bible is a higher Word on that) but when we make things illegal we not only reduce the amount of the activity, but we also reduce the number of people who approve of the activity. I do not believe this is over-reaching by the State. The State should protect people not only from outside threats, but also from threats within its own population.

    I know you're against rape, murder, pedophilia, arson, etc. Well, the difference here is one of degree, not quality. I just happen to think prostitution and pornography and drug abuse are not victimless crimes. These crimes have victims just as real as rape and murder. And I don't mean only the parties involved. Everyone suffers when these things happen. Again, I look to the Bible--which always says that we are a body. We sin as a body, we suffer as a body, we all reap what we as a nation sow. I also do not see man as separate, atomistic beings, each acting in his own autonomous fashion. The Biblical view is that everything that we do affects all of us--and I have seen this all around me.

    I'm with John Donne: "No man is an island, entire unto itself. Each is a part of the continent, a piece of the main[land]." Give old "Meditation 17" a reading. But more importantly, look at the Word. If I could make one wish for you it would be that you would take some time to read nothing on politics or philosophy or even the things I mentioned above, and just devote yourself to the Word. Believe me, it is rich and deep enough for you. Read the Wisdom literature (esp. Proverbs, and Ecclesiastes), the Pauline epistles, the books of John, the Chronicles of the life of David, Genesis over and over and over.... In the end, what you believe on these political questions makes little difference, but what you believe on these Biblical questions will change your life both here and for eternity. This is a special time in your life, a special opportunity. I have never been as 'scholarly' a Bible student as I was between 18 and 24, and it had nothing at all to do with the theology degree I was working on. Nothing. (Because the degree was so wound up in theoretical questions such as those we've been discussing, that I learned little about the actual Bible.)

    I hope I see you tomorrow--I mean today!

    Thanks again for the great comments.

    By Blogger S., at 11:41 PM, January 28, 2006  

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